The Economy

[wberminio]

Just wondering how my fellow botters are making
in this crazy economy.I have some work but nothing very interesting.


Erminio

[joewino]

We are in the sign business and are loaded with work right now. The phone is still ringing and we're still cranking out signs. What recession?

[magic]

I have time to check the forum three times a day.

[dray]

We were going like gangbusters until we finished the Benihana. Now we are dead in the water. Just a few small molding jobs here and there.

Still floating though!

[ted]

Hi Guys,

This is an interesting kind of reality check where some shared information may be useful to lots of people. The economic situation is a source of plenty of concern and stress ... whether biz is going well in the short term or not. It's helpful to have perspectives on how people are doing and what they are doing.

We're certainly very tuned into the economy here at ShopBot and appreciate that our own business fluctuates with the state of industry and the markets in the US. Cabinetmakers and signmakers are some of our core customers and many I spoke with at the recent Camp ShopBot in Ohio reported declining orders (along with the rest of the housing industry) ... though most added that they were staying busy by doing a little more hustling than usual.

Because of the economy, we've also become more aware of customers who are purchasing ShopBots as potential sources of extra income and part-time work. These are individuals who see retirement nest-eggs declining or are frustrated with lack of opportunities in their regular jobs or even experiencing job losses. Wall Street's last few weeks have really hammered some of these people -- what seemed like prudent investments on which they could depend are starting to self-destruct. I don't know how realistic such plans are, given the overall economy. But I do admire their spirit of wanting to invest in themselves and develop new ways of generating revenue from their own productivity.

We're also interested in what we might be able to do by way of putting together resources of some sort that would be useful to businesses or individuals looking for new or different opportunities in this environment.

Ted Hall, ShopBot Tools

[gerryv]

Perhaps this is the tipping point where Shopbotters will have the time to consider the great potential offered by the Project Wizard. My guess is that, until now, those with the capability of producing high quality, dependable projects have been too busy while those of us who would love to have access to a growing library of projects in order to expand or open up new opportunities continue to search for such "bridges". For one thing, it would be a fantastic way of getting the project designer's "widget" sold across the country, continent or world while eliminating often huge shipping costs. Reasonably priced per-unit licenses certainly hasn't harmed Apple's iTunes.

The added benefit as I see it is that the smallest, basement based 'botter and the larger, multi-person operations, as well as the project wizard developer get to make money they would not have otherwise. I'd assume that practical, market/economy appropriate projects might do better during tough times - but who knows. Having a range of choices would sure be nice though.

Although I'm a newbie Shopbotter, much of my experience was in entrepreneurship training, problem solving and strategic planning and yet I can't quite fathom why the Project Wizard hasn't been a big winner - especially in these times???

[gabepari]

RE: Project Wizard

I still haven't been able to log onto that thing


Gabe

[jhicks]

Well these are certainly interesting times but I for one am thrilled to have some level of control of my destiny rather then being totally reliant on a conventional pay check. That being said an old idea that may have merit is akin to the virtual matchmaker, like mfg. com. Basically there is a lot of underutilized capacity out there looking for work and a large number of customers looking for suppliers. the challenge is profiling the right fit and finding one another.
So on Teds note, a service that would certainly be welcome would be a central filter center where potential buyers could find and filter potential shop suppliers who might be equipped to do their work and hopefully begin a relationship.
Just seems that the folks at mfg . com dont focus on wood but more metal machining however their concept is active and seems valid.
The "looking for shopbotter" category is definately a step in this direction however its not likely customers can find it easily or qualify their supplier to fit what they are looking for.
Just a thought.
Being independant isnt easy but its better than the alternatives.

[magic]

That's twice

[myxpykalix]

In these times, the best investment you can make
is...in yourself and your abilities.

[coach]

I have been paying the bills with counter tops.
It is slow compared to last year.
I am concerned because my orders are directly linked to property investors.
As Joe suggests I give out samples and have gotten interest from the sign guys. Mostly cutting acrylic letters.
I am always looking to build the proverbial
"bread box", not better but less expensive.
I have given away about 50 of 3 dimensional pieces from the vectric collections.
All were cut in mahogony.
So far not a single purchase request.
But,,,,,,,it only takes one bite.
I sent out 200 day planners with a price list inside the box.
I got a few bites and one was a 100 mile round trip to make 4 drawers.
What a waste,,,,but when I delivered them I ran into the G.C. who was in the office and I have been making tops for apartment rehabs for almost 4 years.
YOU JUST NEVER KNOW
KEEP PLUGGING.

[sebago_signworks]

We are in the sign and vehicle lettering business and we have never been busier! We are very blessed, and hope that everyone else is just as lucky!

[bleeth]

As some of you may know I purchased my bot 4 plus years ago as a way to enhance my custom cabinet and furniture shop that catered to decorator and retail trade. Unfortunately the blow of two hurricanes depriving our shop of power for several weeks each and the problems in finding high skilled help when orders were plentiful pretty much sank that business. I then went back to my commercial background and ended up in a management position at a big box business that did nothing except commercial jobs. An owner who was siphoning off much needed operational funds made serious problems there although I was lucky enough that there was a need for my bot in the custom shop and they paid for its use as well as paying me well. Their own problems led to my leaving after 18 months and angry customers told me that if I opened my own shop I would have their business. I did so in June of 07 and haven't looked back since. Our product is pure commercial casework and millwork and it is currently booming. We are booked out until February to March of 09.
That being said, my clients have a great deal of concern that projects to be released in the next couple of months may cancel due to rising costs and tightening of commercial credit. Plans that I have made to expand our space and replace and increase our equipment base have been reduced or are being looked at much more carefully.
I refuse to be alarmist about it but never the less, at this time in my life with the current situation economically in general I must take a conservative approach. Increased labor to handle contracts can always be laid off, minor equipment upgrades can be paid for with current cash flow, but leases on additional space and/or major equipment purchases are long term commitments that need to be evaluated based on the possibility that my customer base, which is quite loyal, simply may not have enough work to keep us sufficiently backlogged to weather much of a turndown. I am making a stronger effort than I would have expected to considering our current workload to bring new clients on board. I have entered into a joint venture agreement with a like minded craftsman who will relieve me of much production responsibility so I can increase estimating and sales.
Two things I have learned through many years of successes and drawbacks is that you can not let current good production needs slow down your marketing and you also cannot let marketing efforts degrade your production quality.
With a history of many years in Florida and having watched several "crashes" and "recoveries" before I can tell you that this is the slowest recovery I have ever seen in this part of the country. The owners and developers are wise and some clients are already seeing bids that they would have won 2 years ago be awarded to others who are obviously bidding to stay afloat and forego profits or even accept a loss on the job just to stay in business.

Ted: remember that "Interesting times" can be a Chinese curse.

Dave

[dray]

Keep in mind...

Most commercial jobs have been locked in for over 2 years.

After Benihana's Im completely dis-interested in Commercial work.

The pile ups of contractor on top of contractor, the little control over design etc etc.

[harryball]

OK... well... just remember someone else started this thread. :-)

For those that use credit... this is a very scary time. Especially if you need the credit to keep yourself afloat. For those that do not use credit... other than a little work slow down for some (at the moment) there seems to be very little impact. I know many business owners in a wide range of industries from flower shops to banking. Chatting with some of them is always interesting. One shop that borrowed cash to add on and increase business capacity is in fear of going under. Yet another shop owner was content to save, buy, save buy etc... he said sales are a little slow but otherwise no problems. This is a recuring theme.

Even banks that kept strict lending practices and did not join the "sub-prime get rich quick fleecing the poor folks jamboree" are doing just fine. Granted, they didn't grow like the big boys but hey... where is WAMU again?

This makes me question yet again the wisdom of ever using any type of credit. It seems to me the interest paid is sucking the cream out of the money we all earn and delivering it to the overlords. When we can no longer function without this credit things can crash fast... and they are.

Think about this, for someone who carries no credit in life and earns $2M in a life time they have the result of $2M in spending power... actual real buying, saving power. For someone who carries debt for that same life time they have reduced the buying/saving power of that $2M to a fraction. Just look at the interest you pay on a 30 year home loan compared to the actual cost of the house.

Imagine an economy with NO debt and you will be imagining what the founders of our country were thinking about. We've gone backwards in the last few decades... while earning goes up the average $10,000 in credit card debt that Americans carry (stat fresh from ABC News) not to mention the home loans, car loans, college loans and so forth have reduced the effectiveness of that income to the point we are going backwards. Don't even get me started on taxes.

I don't condemn anyone using credit I just wish more people really understood what they were signing on for when they did. I think many would back away from the table and drive that beat up car another year or two while saving for a new car. Let me tell you... whipping out cash to pay for an F350 felt awful good... better than any car or truck I ever financed. It took me years to save the money... but that truck is the best truck I have EVER owned going on 6 years now. I grow as my cash grows and I must report too... so far I'm feeling very little business impact from the economy. As for my portfolio... now is the time to buy.

Making money using someone elses money is all fun and games until they want their money back and you don't have it. This holds true for you and Lehman Brothers.

/RB

[gene]

I think after the elections , no matter how it goes , things will begin to be more stable, and people will know how to plan their near future. I know of several friends that have lost millions upon millions in the markets , but , historically it will recover, May take longer than they want ,but they wont go hungry until it does. Someone earlier said they would rather invest in themselves , and i agree,, if i invest in me and i fail , then at least i know who to blame.
During slow times you may need to step back and evaluate your process . what can you do to increase efficiency and quality while maintaining a good work flow. Dont waste the time worrying about yesterday , focus on tommorrow , things will get better. Before you jump ship on things that you made alot of money on , you may need to rethink , and keep doing them, just with a different captain.

[bcammack]

We're down to our core group of best people here. The construction market in Florida has imploded.

One thing I've found is that immediately preceding a presidential election, people/companies tend to stand pat until it's over. I don't attribute the current financial downturn to it, but I think that right now, it exacerbates it. When the election is over, either way, there will be less uncertainty than there is now. People hate making decisions during times of uncertainty. Been that way from what I've seen, since LBJ was President.

I'm expecting things to open up following November 4. Not a lot, but perceptibly so things aren't quite as dire as they appear now.

[chodges]

The sign industry typically slows down as we near the end of the calendar year because many of our customers operate their budgets by calendar year. When the "new money" becomes available (usually in late January) we usually see a sharp upturn.

This year, we have noticed that the seasonal decline in business seems to have started earlier than usual, and I attribute that to the economy.

Our strategy is to spend more time each day calling our past customers to thank them for their business. We have found that this usually pays dividends when its time for them to order more signs in the future.

We are also putting the finishing touches on materials for our next marketing campaign, which will start in early January.

I agree with Gene - you can't dwell on yesterday, and you absolutely must be proactive about your plans for tomorrow.

[dray]

I really like what Gene and Ted said.

"But I do admire their spirit of wanting to invest in themselves and develop new ways of generating revenue from their own productivity"


"if i invest in me and i fail , then at least i know who to blame."


I have always believed in this.

I would never let mine or my families welfare depend upon another persons decision making ability.

[myxpykalix]

Hey Danny..

Isn't that what I said also? Only in far fewer sentences? lol

I thought i was being somewhat profound!

I worked one summer in the steel mills and walked out and have worked for myself since I was 19 and always found ways to make money. I still don't know what i want to be when i grow up!

[myxpykalix]

This sounds like a good excuse to add an addition to the workshop!

[ted]

FYI ... more description of the issues we are facing: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/business/smallbusiness/02sbiz.html

I visited "Unto This Last" in London about two years ago. It's a very interesting operation in terms of both the amazing designs it produces and it's business model. Olivier Geoffroy, originally a ShopBotter, has made an incredible study of both the CNC design process and the operation of a CNC storefront. He has even developed an entire production/management system for this type of operation. Even though he replaced his original ShopBot with a big Multicam, I would have to say visiting his shop had to rate right up there with my visit to the MIT FAB Labs as one of the most interesting days I have had.

My impression was the he was both optimistic about the future of such operations, but very realistic about the difficulties. His operation is successful, but I had the feeling it may not have taken off to the degree he had hoped -- despite the very impressive work they do.

Maybe we can get him to add a few thoughts here ...

Ted Hall, ShopBot Tools

[dray]

with the economy on a downward spiral I am grateful I purchased a shopbot rather than a $100k piece of steel that would be another burden on me.

This was something I seriously thought about before purchasing.

The first place I came was this forum and started asking questions.

My shopbot has paid for itself by 10 fold.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are products that sell very well in bad times just as there are products that sell well in good times.

Oh yeah..
Gene Rhodes wrote "Why not each one of us post a little project and lets all use all of our combined talents"

There is a program you can find on these boards called "free doors" an MDF cabinet door program.

This has paid my shop rent more than once!

Practice a bit with it and make up some flyers and send them out to all the local cabinet shops.

[gene]

Very Good idea, I put an small ad in a local for sale type paper for this type of service and have sold a few sets mainly to remodelers and do it your selfers. its not a lot of money but the income definately helps, I'll have to try to post a sign i did out of a clipart frog holding a sign for advertising at a remodeling i was doing . It was very suprising the amount of response i got just because it was different. It did the job though , it got alot of attention , and more work..

[wberminio]

I started this thread because I was curious how my fellow botters were making out.I went from being a bit down- to start thinking how to expand beyond the box.Shopbot Is the Tool to allow us to create and
be flexible in this or any economy.
Maybe now we have a little more time to really create.
Even during The Depression people made $$$,even fortunes.
This forum is what makes Shopbot not just a tool but something truly more.

Thanks all for your support.Keep your ideas coming!!

Erminio

[gundog]

I am in the Marine products business and most of my products go on new fishing boats. That market has really slowed down. Mine is a side business so I don't have to make much so I will survive. It does feel good to have some free time for a change.
Mike

[henrik_o]

Lots of great ideas here! I had been thinking about making a 'parametric bed' for something like the project wizard, it would be great if that project is getting more attention.

Anyway, I think it's important to keep in mind that when the economy contracts, business changes, but it's still there, and it opens up different business opportunities. Sweden isn't in the same kind of financial troubles that's affecting the US, but Swedes are fiscally prudent (so to speak) and we're a small economy, so there’s been a lot of investment budgets being cut down. Not canceled, but cut down. If you're alert, this can mean good opportunities.

For example, a few days ago I was asked to bid a job for re-finishing several hundred chairs. Originally, the client had reserved money for buying new chairs, but now with the uncertain outlooks all around, that budget got cut in half.

What this means is that the chair manufacturers and retailers are out of the picture; they can't go that low even for that amount of chairs. The client is left with trying to get their old chairs “as new” by re-finishing them. I’ve done some jobs for them so they called, they’ve also called some larger shops, asking for bids.

Here’s what I did. Yesterday, when I got the call, I went over there and got hold of one of those chairs. During the weekend, I’m going to re-finish that one so by Monday I can go there and present not only my bid, but also a finished sample.

Here comes the punch: I will v-carve their logo into the backrest of that chair, painting the carving with a (faux) gold paint that blends nicely with the warm copper-ish tone they desire for the chairs. I’ve done some samples already and it looks great. Total time to machine? 36 seconds (thank you v-carve pro). Painting is just spray and wipe, it doesn’t take 30 secs.

I know my bid will be higher than those of the larger shops. But I will be there Monday morning, two business days after they called, with a finished sample and this logo carved in the chair that they couldn’t even get if they bought new. My competitors will give their bids maybe on Wednesday, without a sample, and certainly without the carved logo.

Yeah, ok, I haven’t gotten the contract. But I’m fairly sure I will. Why? Because I’m faster than my competitors, my OODA loop is much tighter -- for those that like management speak; and because I throw in a great added value that the customer didn’t even know they could get in the first place. Thank you Shopbot!

It’s not like this is a fat contract. But we’re talking some 50k here, and it’s a great filler to have between jobs with better margins, after all, the bills and salaries have to be paid.

The important thing is that in the ‘normal’ economy I wouldn’t have gotten this chance. They would have gone to a large manufacturer/retailer, and I could never compete with them in making new chairs, I wouldn’t have been asked for a bid anyway. Crucially, this 50k opportunity came through my door because of the contraction, not despite of it.

Now that this tumbled in like that, I will of course assemble a smart little leaflet that I’ll mail to every hotel, conference center, church, restaurant etc within a 100km radius from my shop. Then I’ll hit the phone for follow-up. There’s got to be at least ten more situations like this out there -- ‘budget got cut, what do we do with all our chairs that look worn and notched?’ -- just waiting to be picked. In the normal economy, there would have been none, since everyone just buys new.

The market doesn’t vanish, it just changes. Identify that change, go after it aggressively before anyone else does, and the general downturn could be your path to expansion.

--^*^--

How’s that for a pep talk, Erminio?



And yeah, if my little scheme pans out, one year from now I’ll probably beg on my bare knees, ”please Lord, never let me see another chair in my life”

[myxpykalix]

henrik,
please post a picture of your sample when finished. For those of us who might like to emulate this idea if you could take some pictures of the various stages that would be great too. thanks

[wberminio]

Henrick

That's what I'm talking about

Erminio

[henrik_o]

Here’s another thing I’ve been looking at to make the contraction work for me and my business: kitchen countertops.

I’ve stayed away from that in the ‘old’ economy because I just couldn’t see that there was much of an opening for me, it’s hard to be competitive when you do a few countertops per month.

However, I’m hopeful that the contraction changes everything and gives me just that opening. My thinking is this: as the economy contracts and people become more frugal with money, they will still buy kitchens, but they’ll want to save a bit and won’t go for the extravaganzas. What’s the extravaganza in a top kitchen? The granite/marble countertops. The kitchen manufacturers/retailers charge absolutely insane amounts for them (over $1500/m2) so this is going to be one of the first things to go for people that scale down their budget. Still, since there’s a very significant price differential between mineral/wood countertops, I do not believe those that originally went for the solid wood countertops will scale down and go for laminates to nearly the same degree.

What happens then? The mineral countertop market will vanish, but the market for wood countertops will likely increase by quite a margin. At that point, two interesting things might happen: 1) since the kitchen manufacturers are collectively insane (heh), they will probably see the raise in demand for wood and accordingly raise their prices significantly. 2) due to the increase in demand, production capacity for wooden countertops will become severely strained, leading to even longer waiting times for the customers. Those two points are of course inter-related; they can’t meet the demand so they have to raise their prices. (But they are also quite insane, so they’ll raise prices by much more than lack of productive capacity necessitates).

That’s the opening. Prices will go up and waiting times increase, making for a whole lot of sad customers.

So, the local newspapers run special kitchen ad packages every week. Place ads there, promising to get these people their precious walnut or oak (etc) countertops for 10% less and in half the time. Who wouldn’t jump on that? And I can still make a neat profit, because the insane margins the large kitchen firms have accustomed people to will still be at work.

Right, this is just an idea. I have run it by some people I trust and they’ve been positive, but it’s still just a plan and nothing may come of it. But this is the kind of thing that can happen as an economy cools down; as everything shifts down a gear and the top layer disappears, opportunities can open up. I can’t do mineral, but I can do wood. And I can do it a lot faster than the big players, just in a much smaller market.

[henrik_o]

jack,

Will do. There'll be a lag from action to posting, but early next week.

Erminio,

Go for it (whatever it is that you do)!

[gerryv]

Henrik,

Thanks kindly for your generosity of wisdom and logic.

[GlenP]

I agree with Henrik that in these times certain markets are going to be out of reach and people will want the options which we can offer. I am in Ontario Canada and our economy is still moving but people are scared and they are being cautious about spending. I am looking into cutting laminate countertops on the cnc and now seem to do more wood edge laminate countertops. Around here the refacing market is getting busier and people can still have the new kitchen look without blowing the bank on a totally new kitchen. I am going to push refacing kits and wood edge tops, mdf doors (which can be stained to look great) and finishing techniques to make myself different then the box type stores. I am glad I don't use credit to run my business and only have to worry about paying myself. Being a big business brings on bigger overhead and bigger headaches and bigger worries in these times. I feel for the ones that won't make it and salute them for jumping off the fence and trying to start their own business. The old saying goes you won't know unless you try. Happy botting.

[gene]

Glenn
Please post any photos of stained mdf doors and the process you use. We have seen a shift in the cabinet market from new to refinished facelifts , doors and hardware. I ad intrested in the staining mdf, and what it will look like.

[Call-Tech]

Its amazing how these threads evolve, all very interesting and many great inputs. But what started as Economy has now become ProjWiz.

I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. Can the contents of this tread be split into 2 threads?

Economy - We are in Michigan and we are Slow. Everything in Michigan is slow. Many of my long time customers are going out of business. I certainly am looking for ways to fill voids in our income. However as always, marketing is the big problem in all industries. If we come up with a great gizmo to sell, service to offer, how to market it on low or no budget?

ProjWiz - I would love a place (ProjWiz) to get designs to cut. Mostly for side projects to add a little income here and there. I would pay for designs of item that people can't buy "made in china" from the wally worlds and big box stores.

But as much as I think they are cool, I do not think most customers would be interested in the look of some of the projwiz lock together projects. Single or two sheet projects with traditional assembly would be better. There are so many things people are doing with their bots, it amazing. I do not know what I am looking for in projwiz, but it isn't there yet. I think its a great idea and I really hope it happens, but I don't know how many people want to give up even a small bread and butter item so that everyone can build it... even for a price.

[woodworx]

Just scraping by here in So. Cal. We all need to find a way to diversify our marketing ideas. Suggestions? What free/low cost ways are out there?

[myxpykalix]

Here is something i'm doing for my local Habitat for Humanity store. went down and they gave me some marble and porcelin floor tiles that were donated to them.
I am attempting to carve designs and other things into them and donate back. Then you could maybe attach a sticker with your name and number on the back (or carve it into them) so that when people want to buy the stack of tiles, not all will be carved but they may want you to do them or have you do differnt designs or other uses like house number plates, ect.

[myxpykalix]

Along the lines of adding income in these times. Here is an idea. I have done this on several occassions for various things.

I go down to my local Habitat for Humanity store and depending on what i might need to furish or upgrade some of my houses or apartments (or something special for the grandkids) I have bought a plain wooden bedframe and headboard and made a design and carved it into the headboard for "added value".

You could do the same and resell the newly carved item because you are buying it at a discount to begin with.
I get things from them at a bigger discount (and some things free) because i will take other items and carve them and donate them back, thereby increasing the value to them. Just an idea that helps me and helps them....

[ron_varela]

After playing 18 holes of golf and a 12 pack later I had some time to read this whole topic and still made $300.00 on my shopbot. What is the trick to keeping busy? Is it mass production or making bids on jobs or just searching for that right idea what we call the Holy Grail that will keep us making a living? The answer is “IDEAS” take what you know and apply it to something else and in time you will see more ideas.
A few weeks ago I seen a tv add for grooming dog and cats nails and it was called Pet A Cure and sold for $19.99 and last week I see a different add for the same thing but called Pet Safe and just 2 days ago I see another add for the same thing but called Smart Cut and the kicker is it is the same product but with different handles and everything else was the same and for the same price.
So If I was to take someone else’s idea and modify it can I call it mine? If I was to go out and buy a TV and took out all the components and just make a wooden cabinet for it this would be my brand right? You bet because it does not look like nothing out there, then a week later everyone is selling them. So does this apply to images of things you see on the internet? Sure it does, you can take any image and just modify it into a cut file and call it yours because it was someone else’s idea, the trick is to make it just look different.
The famous picture

8895
2d etched in metal and using black paint to fill in the gaps

8896
Engraved in wax or foam

8897
Engraved in in wood

8898
Or used as an image

8899


So who is the true owner of the last supper? And who should profit from it? it was a painting turned into a graphic image and now everyone is making money off it.
Anything can be called your own and others are making profit from it so why not you.
All the above files can be cut on any cnc machine and are on the internet for sale in many cad cam formats, I would stay away from the Disney one.
Nothing is safe out their and ideas are just that “IDEAS” that others take and use to make a profit. I know many of you would like to design your own work and be able to sell it but in all reality if you post a picture or an idea of what you want to do expect it to be made and sold by everyone that has a cnc machine.
The dino/celtic and furniture fonts I made back in 2000 I gave away free and now you see it all over the internet and some sites selling them, I can not complain because someone has to take what others make an make a profit right.

Ron

[henrik_o]

Anyway, I got the chair job I mentioned earlier. Quick action plus a nice v-carve sealed the deal.

I don't want to clutter this thread with the images I promised Jack to post (and I didn't snap many pics to begin with) so I put them in the S&T section; chair v-carve (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/17997/34919.html?1223650027)

It's not exactly a high margin job but it will fit in nicely between larger projects.

[henrik_o]

Also, I've started attacking the countertop market angle I was ruminating about earlier. I can already see that this one is going to be more difficult to sustain a profit from by going for the end users, but I've managed to get the word out to general building/re-modeling contractors and we'll see where it takes us, my angle now is strictly to "steal" jobs from the large manufacturers on the higher end stuff.

That is, I’m not interested in becoming a regular supplier for the contractors, that would take too much of an effort, but I have let the contractors know that if the big manufacturers are arrogant and won’t commit to or live up to a reasonable delivery schedule (something that can put the contractor in a world of hurt with the client) then I’m there for them and will do “emergency” delivery in one week sharp for a 25% premium on what the big box firms demand.

We’ve done one job already, a 40mm walnut countertop which included a finger joint assembly at one end. The finger joint was cut on the bot, by facing the two parts to be joined to each other right on the vacuum table and then offsetting one of them by exactly one finger’s width, then pocketing both ends in one run with a 8mm endmill. When Embla (our bot) was done, we used a handheld router with a radius bit to shape the back ends of the fingers for a perfect match.

You can see the result on the contractor’s page for current jobs, here (http://www.byggmontage.com/aktuella.htm). Since that page will display another job soon here’s a pic for posterity:


8900

Small job, small profit, but hey, five or six of these a month and that’s one salary – they only take a couple of hours per order anyway.

[Brady Watson]

Henrik,
I'll add a little to what you wrote from my own unique perspective, which has served me well:

"What is the trick to keeping busy?" aka "What's the secret to being successful regardless of what doom & gloom the media puts in our faces?"

The right product/widget isn't the barrier to success - it's your own mind and your own beliefs about who you intend to be in the marketplace. There is always room for the BEST in ANY market.

I'll begin by saying that right now, despite all of the impending doom, I am busier and making more money than I have in the past 3 years combined. Some of you may have noticed that I haven't been posting here on any regular basis - this is because I am so completely inundated with work(!) that any down time is spent with the familiy, eating or sleeping. I've received scores of calls from other Botters, machinists, designers, customers et al, that are thinking about closing their businesses, some of which who have been in business for 20 years or more. Listening to heart-breaking stories like that can take the wind out of your sails - IF you allow it. I'll convey a very small portion of what I've discussed with these friends & cohorts. (Several have reconsidered closing, and now have enough work to keep the doors open and mouths fed...simply and ultimately by recognizing their own cause in their businesses)

No other thing affects your success than your thoughts. No other thing can transform your business (and life) than creating a BIG dream for yourself and believing that you will, without a doubt, achieve it. Nothing. This is of course not to say that if you dream to become an astronaut that you will become one, as there are certain limitations to this, rooted in this so called thing - reality. As with everything else in life, there is no free lunch. There are no 'get rich quick' schemes out there that when implemented, will allow you to continue to live a life with integrity, and get a good night's rest. There ARE however, opportunities EVERYWHERE to cater to untapped sectors and niches with your goods and services. The key here is VALUE. What VALUE in your products and services can you provide your customers? What product or service is missing in a given market, that you could provide? Customers (everyone - incl. YOU) want to be served. Are you serving them to the BEST of your ability? Going that extra mile to ensure their success? Your powers of observation, and ability to take correct action, pay dividends when analyzing potential markets. Discover what is needed & do it! Thinking 'in CNC' when you are out and about will bombard you with ideas and opportunities...chance favors the prepared mind. If you are focused on impending doom, then there is little chance to notice good opportunities. It's one thing to be prudent & open and another to be stuck in your head believing that everything is going down the tubes...You must avoid the luxury of this type of 'poverty thinking' AT ALL COSTS!

We are so fortunate to have so much opportunity in this country, unlike other places of the world. From a guy who had his heater turned all the way down on 45°, eating beans & cheese and using the dog for warmth 4yrs ago - I feel that if you cannot make money here, then something is wrong. When you have pulled all the weeds of doom & gloom out of the garden of your mind, and you plant thoughts that touch, move and inspire, you will quickly see there is gold dust in the air. Success is a choice & nothing more than that! YOU decide if you are worthy. YOU decide if you are going to be successful. YOU decide if you like/love/hate yourself. AND...believe it or not, YOU decide when and how much money you are going to make! YOU and ONLY YOU! (News flash: The faery godmother got clipped by a bus on the way over to your house...It's all on your shoulders now & it's all going to be OK no matter what. Really.) The bottom line is, YOU choose your outlook, your modus operandi for excellence and success and no one else.

Many of the things that I have learned regarding correct thinking and success are attributed to the works of Napoleon Hill - namely, 'Think & Grown Rich'. You can find it for under $10 in just about any bookstore. If you are ready to be the ultimate commander of your business, it is an excellent place to start. Most of the ideas and concepts sound so easy to do, and they are, which is why very few ever do them. I've learned that conventional wisdom, about darn near anything - incl. business, is almost always wrong. You must NEVER second guess yourself. YOU and only YOU know what is ultimately right for your business. Taking a poll from others stuck in the same mess doesn't honor your inner wisdom.

Personally, I am not doing anything physically different than I did a few years ago, except eating better and allowing the thermostat to provide a bit more comfort. I am however, thinking much differently, with bigger dreams and goals than ever before. This is something that has cost me nothing, yet has given me everything. I came across an interesting notion/factoid in my studies regarding monetarily successful people and why they were 10,50,100,1000 or more times more successful than me. Was it because they were 10,50,100 etc times smarter than me? No. Impossible. If the max IQ is around 200 or so, how could it be possible that they were even 2X smarter than me? Was it because they were just more 'lucky'? No. (what does luck have to do with anything - superstition) It basically boiled down to them having dreams and goals that were 10,50,100,1000 times bigger than mine. Goals so big they didn't think they could achieve them in this lifetime...If you do your research and listen to what the 'heavy hitters' say about success, you will quickly see that they dream bigger than you do...and again, sounds so simple - which is why few of us will actually try it on, stick with it and recognize our own goodness, genius and creative ability.

There's enough work for everyone, unless you subscribe to poverty thinking. Accept your own good & DECIDE to fulfill your dreams & goals. The PRODUCT or SERVICE you provide makes no difference whatsoever in regards to success. As long as you do your best, give MORE than what the customer paid for, you will grow your business by leaps and bounds - whether you are just starting out, or have 10yrs into it.

All of this is just MY personal opinion. Take what works for YOU individually and discard the rest.

-B

PS -Some of you may find something of value for yourself in this list: http://www.danpena.com/penaisms.php

_

[dray]

"true dat"

[brucehiggins]

Thanks Brady for the timely reminder to think positive and dream big! Great advice!!!
Bruce

[coach]

As my 20 year old son would say...............

"WORD"
Brady, you may recall a mention of "Think and Grow Rich" a few months back. (Napoleon Hill)
I purchased the book that evening.
Very illuminating reading.
I also read books on marketing. Most information doesn't pertain to me but I take what I can use.
As my skill on the bot increases so does my work load.
THANKS Brady and THANKS to everyone on this forum.
I learn something every time I am here.
Dave

[woodworx]

One of my prof. also recommended a book by Hill, called "The Laws of Success" He called it the bible. Hill studied the greatest leaders of the century, in fact devoted his life to researching what made them tick. The book "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" was based on the writings of Hill.

Keeping the spirit alive is very important to all of us, since most of us only rely on ourselves to keep food on the table. Dreaming big is really only half of creating the life that we imagine. The other half is making sure that our goals are reachable. Step by step, and day by day, create the plan that will keep the dream alive and growing.

I see the end. I have a clear idea of what my business will look like in the end. Full production in swing. 3-4 machines running full time side by side. A few guys running the machines, being as excited about their job as I get when I start my spindle up every morning. Free coffee, and someone to do my books for me. It is a lovely vision.

I can't imagine myself working for anyone else. My creative juices are flowing everyday, and do believe I would get bored doing anything else. We all love the notion that we can really create anything, whether it makes money or not. Personally I have come to the conclusion that if I am not going to make money, I would rather do it out fishing or hanging with the family.

These times for most are about survival, but since we have the capabilities to do something that the next guy can't, we might as well take advantage.

Like everyone else says, the forum is great, thanks to all that contribute. Take care all.

[tuck]

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

FDR's inaugural address is still pertinent today.

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/

[GlenP]

It is terrible how in our efforts to save a few dollars these days we end up hurting ourselves in the long run. I am the same as anyone else and have to watch the almighty dollar and make it go as far as I can but I am choosing to watch closer where my money goes. Companies import goods from foreign countries around the world because the cost is cheaper than manufacturing them here in our own country. We then end up putting our own economy in jeopardy and jobs are getting lost and businesses closing. The US government borrowed the bailout money from one of those foreign countries to try and stimulate the economy and get things moving in the right direction. So when the US government borrowed money from China they actually only borrowed their own money back in which we have poured into the Chinese economy buying those cheaper goods. If we bought north american products and support our own economy we can turn this around. In fact maybe our governments should be charging import fees to these cheaper items to make them less desirable to market here or applying some sort of tax rebate to buy american or canadaian. What sparked this rant was a visit to a local mall on the weekend and I took time to check the tags on items in the stores. 90% of what was on the shelves was made in China or Taiwan. I am personally making every effort to buy north American where I can. I promote it to my customers and so far they encourage it as well. Hope all agree and try to do the same. Just my two cents, bot on.

[dray]

I just returned from another 10 day China trip (yes manufacturing) The news was all about the US economy. Our economy dictates what happens in the rest of the world. The other countries will actually buffer our economy by reducing the value of their dollar compared to ours in order to bring up their economy..

Odd huh

[Brady Watson]

Glen et al,
Those are big problems to tackle...and personally I find them too big for me to worry about. The 'world' and all it's seemingly injustices will keep on turnin' & burnin' for the rest of our lives and beyond. At this stage of life I try not to worry about the things I have no power over and things that I personally, can not change. It just leads to frustration & nothing positive can come out of it.

It seems that collectively we have become too spoiled with certain levels of comfort and nobody wants to do production for $5 an hour (or less) anymore. So be it. - On the other hand, here we are - a group of robotic tool owners complaining about how bad we have it...Perhaps today is the perfect time for all of us to step back, take a deep breath and really count our blessings.

There is literally 'gold dust in the air'. I've found personally that when we let the thoughts & feelings of doom & gloom to creep in that we cannot see the forrest for the trees - that is to say that when we get caught up in the drama put forth on the news etc, that we cannot clearly see how many opportunities are right in front of our own faces, ready for the taking. There is a TON of work out there AND there is enough for ALL OF US. Believing anything else will just result in suffering - and none of us can afford to think this way anymore.

You have to have a dream & a plan. Morning, noon & night one should be thinking, feeling and creating his plan in his own mind - seeing it to fruition. There is no such thing as faery godmothers, and it's rare for someone to knock on your door with that 'big job' unless you are actively attracting that to yourself. I cite that we are all more powerful than we realize, and that we all have the power to direct our lives towards prosperity if we would all just 'mind our own business' - that is to say, let go of the things we have no power to control & focus on the products and services that we can deliver to existing and untapped markets...and lemme tell ya, there are LOTS of untapped markets and customers that NEED what you have to offer, yet somehow they cannot find you. The thought that things are tight, there isn't enough for everyone to go around etc is ALL poverty thinking...and completely untrue. Unless of course you wish to subscribe to that sort of thinking...just remember that buying into this sort of thinking will take you no place but down...but you have a choice - IF you have a dream and plan & you truly believe in yourself & that you are unstoppable in achieving it.

When we find ourselve constantly complaining, then it's time to count our blessings and realize just how good we've got it.

-B

[kivimagi]

I think its pretty clear if you create a better mouse trap, people are going to knock down your door to get it. Regardless of the economy

Case in point. Vectric's Aspire Software

Regards,